Sound check. 1 2 3 Good morning everyone and welcome to audit finance and administration committee for Thursday July 30th 2026. My name is Jeff Bey. I will be your chair today. Joining us in chambers councilors Clark Cooper Moren Wilson Cretch Spataphora Alex Wilson and councelor Wang. and a special acknowledgement that this is the final meeting for Sal Solomon, our legislative coordinator. And I think I speak on all members of the committee that we're going to miss you, buddy. >> Moving on. >> Okay, the vice chair maybe not so much. Anyhow, S, we wish you the best as you move on to bigger, better things, but don't forget us here at AFNA. Okay. >> All right. We're starting. We have quorum present. So, I'm calling the meeting to order at 9:30. Uh, please remember that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function, which means please make them silent now. That includes watches, which I'm doing now. There are no ceremonial activities. Uh we're going to move on to the approval of the agenda which is item three. And I understand that uh councelor Alex Wilson may want to make an amendment. So I'll move to uh councelor Alex Wilson first. >> Uh thank you through you chair. We have some delegates from the Dr. Bob Kemp hospice here as our first delegates. They're here on item 9.2. My motion is to move item 9.2 to before items for consideration but upon completion of all delegations on all items on our agenda. And my secondary is counselor spaphora. >> Okay. So >> sorry to interrupt counselor. Did you mean items for information not consideration? >> Sorry. Before information after delegations. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So we would move 9.3 up to the beginning just in front of 7.1 then >> 9.2 but otherwise correct. >> My apologies I got my numbers mixed up. So the motion would be to move the agenda item 9.2 to to be just in front of item 7.1 to allow uh kind of a a quick conversation on that. I think that that's a good news item. So, uh I'd be happy to entertain that. And I'm looking around for a show of hands to see if all are in favor. And I see that that is unanimous. Congratulations. Okay, we're moving back to the approval of the agenda as amended. Uh if I could have a mover and seconder in councilors Wang and Spataphora. Thank you. Any questions on the amended agenda? Seeing none, by a show of hand vote, all in favor, please. Thank you, colleagues, we're moving on to item four, which is declaration of interest. Are there any declarations of interest? Seeing none, we're moving on now to the approval of the minutes of the previous meeting. This is item five. This is from the meeting from July 9th, 2026, including the closed session minutes from same item 5.1 and 11.1. If I could have a mover and secondary, councelor Spataphora, councelor Clark. Thank you. Any conversations about the minutes? Seeing none, please show of hand vote. All in favor? And that passes unanimous. Thank you, colleagues. We're moving on to delegations. This is item six. Of course, a quick reminder to members of the committee that questions of the delegates are for clarification purposes only and not for debate. A note to our delegates at the 4minute mark, you will hear a ding followed by another ding at 5 minutes. That will conclude your 5m minute speaking time. If you um are still going, I may have to interrupt you, but I'll do it as kindly and delicately as possible. Uh, also under the procedural bylaw 5.1211, I just want to remind delegates who have previously appeared before the committee on a subject matter that uh speaking on a matter a second time requires new information to be brought forward. We don't want to uh keep talking about the same old things. So with that, I'm moving on now to item 6.1. Danielle, CEO of Kemp Care Network, respecting a waiver of development charges owing for Katon's House, the Paul Petta Children's Hospice in person. Danielle, if you want to come come on down once we get you set up the moment you begin, that will begin your five minute speaking time. Okay. Okay. Good morning, chair and members of the audit, finance and administration committee. My name is Danielle Zuket and I'm the CEO of Kemp Care Network. I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about Katon's House and our request that the city wave the development charges associated with this critically important community project. My connection to Katon's House is both professional and deeply personal. As CEO, I am a leading a dedicated team working to create a specialized pediatric hospice for children and families across Hamilton and the surrounding region. I'm also Katon's mother. Keen's legacy is at the heart of this project and is the reason I believe so strongly that every family facing a child's lifelimiting illness deserves care, comfort, dignity, and choice. Katon's house will provide pediatric paliotative care, respit, end of life care, grief counseling, and comprehensive support for the entire family. After years of planning, partnership, and perseverance, we are ready to pull our building permits and begin construction. However, before that permit can be issued, we must pay development charges of approximately $250,000. This cost now stands between a construction ready project and putting shovels in the ground. Sorry, is it frozen here? There. I want to acknowledge that the city has been an important partner through this journey. The city helped us identify the land and has established the lease. It supported us through the planning and approval process and helped us move this project from an ambitious vision to a construction ready community asset. I sincerely thank the mayor, council, and city staff for their leadership and support in getting us to this point. We're asking the city to take one more important step with us. Public funding for pediatric hospice care is limited both for building the hospice and operating it once the doors open. As a charitable organization, we must raise a significant portion of the capital required to construct Katon's House. We must then continue fundraising to sustain the specialized care children and families will receive. This places an enormous responsibility on our organization and on our community. Every dollar directed towards development charges is a dollar that cannot be used to build care spaces, purchase spe specialized equipment, or support the children and families who will rely on us. Katon's House is not a commercial development. It's a health care and social infrastructure that will serve the entire community. The province recognizes hospitals through development charge exemptions while Katon's House will provide care in a more intimate homelike environment. The services are still essential health care services. Families will receive specialized pediatric care, respbit, end of life support, and grief counseling in a place designed around their unique physical and emotional needs. This is not simply a building. It's a permanent community asset. Katon's House directly supports Hamilton's vision for a healthy, safe, inclusive, and compassionate community. It will improve access to pediatric health care and family support. It will bring together volunteers, donors, healthcare partners, and community organizations. Our services will welcome every family regardless of income, culture, faith, or background. Katon's House will turn Hamilton's community priorities into meaningful, lasting action. and for some of our most vulnerable children and families. Hamilton residents have said that they want a community that is healthy, inclusive, compassionate, and supportive. Katon's House Paul Petta Children's Hospice is an opportunity to make that vision real. Our capital campaign is a tremendous weight for our organization and community to carry. By waving these development charges, the city can make a significant and tangible contribution to this project. And to every child and family who will need this care, we are ready to begin. We're ready to put shovels in the ground. Today, I respectfully ask you to help us make Katon's House a reality by waving the development charges. Thank you. >> Thank you, Danielle. Appreciate you being here today. uh personally um it's very impactful. We have a number of speakers that wish to ask you a few questions and I know that you've got some technical expertise next to you in case the questions are >> um of that nature. So we'll start with councelor Alex Wilson please. >> Thank you. Hopefully uh not too technical. I think just you're here today because when you went to the building permit stage, that's when development charges became known to you and that's when they were calculated. They weren't known at the planning stage. They weren't known at the landly stage. Just kind of confirming you're here now because this is the step in the process you're in. >> Correct. >> Um, thank you. Uh, from that lens of partnership, I think on one of your slides, and no need to pull it up, but you had it kind of broken down into those three phases of kind of partnership with the city. There was the land partnership phase. There's kind of that planning partnership before construction and now there's that kind of working with the finance team around the development charges. Uh obviously this has been approached kind of at each of those as as that from that kind of perspective of we're negotiating a lease, we're reviewing a planning application, we're calculating development charges. uh from the perspective of being a partner with the city, wanting the city to maybe partner in future with other nonprofit organizations, are you just able to comment about if that kind of phasing of the work or phasing of the partnership helped kind of achieve this and kind of deal with things one at a time or if it would have been helpful to maybe have a different process? I'm just wondering if you could provide some feedback around that kind of partnership model um that you experienced as kind of very discreet maybe. >> Well, do you want to ask? >> Yes, thank you very much. Um I think I think the process anything that gives us confidence in where the total number is landing is always a benefit for the project. Um the process that you described that we did go through was very helpful in first understanding the site uh understanding what we can do on there. Um as you mentioned a partnership to go through and navigate that was incredibly helpful to build our confidence as money is being vested a lot of it from donation funds and as Danielle said every dollar matters and it really does. Um, so how we spend our time, which is a financial contribution to how we spend the money on the project and move it forward. Um, the process has been very welcome and we appreciate the city helping us navigate that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for that. Up next, councelor Mike Spapora, please. >> Thank you, Chair. I'm uh going to break the rules. I think I'm supposed to have questions, so I'm going to pretend like I'm asking a question, but I'm not going to. So you can uh stop me when you will. Um I just want to say thanks for coming. Um Danielle, personally, thanks for having the courage to do what you do. Um there's not a lot of people that have that courage, but there are a lot of people that um went through similar things. So thank you. >> Okay. I don't see any further Oh, my apologies. Councelor Cooper. >> Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Danielle, for coming today. It's great what you're doing. By us waving this development charge today, can you give us a sense when Katon's house will will be live and and active in taking in uh in in palative uh care patients? >> What will our >> Yes, thank you. So, from the uh construction side, um we've scheduled fall of next year to open up and and be able to deliver to uh the community. So, we're very excited about this process getting going and this is a huge contribution to help us get there. >> And this really moves up that timeline to next fall. If this didn't happen today, uh you'd have to go through a whole fundraising exercise that could really push this out maybe potentially years, right? >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all you're doing. >> Thank you, Councelor Cooper. Doing a second check around the horseshoe to make sure that I haven't missed anybody. Thank you so much for being here. Sincerely, you want to hang out in the gallery? Uh we've moved the agenda item up. So uh we'll get to that as soon as we finished our delegations. Uh if I can have a mover and secondary to receive this delegation. Seeing councilors Alex Wilson and Mike Spataphora. Show of hand vote. All in favor to receive the delegation. And that carries. Thank you colleagues. Moving on now to item 6.2 6.2A. Havis is saying virtually. Aise um you are being uh able to speak on Ontario Works value for money audit. I see you up there in the big screen. Welcome. You know the deal. You've got five minutes and please keep it to uh new information with regards to this subject matter. Whenever you're ready, >> ask um S if the the slide is up because um just wondering if the clerk can put it up. It's just one slide. Yeah. >> Just give us a moment and we'll get that put up for you. Okay. Thank you. S. >> All right. Um, we won't be able to see you, just so you know. >> That's fine. >> As long as you can hear me, that's all good. Um, so thank you, um, Chair Bey, members of the Audit, Finance, Administration Committee, and the Auditor General. Um, I'm here today to present new information only while the Ontario works value for money audit is in progress. I continue and the reason I'm here today is because I am flagging serious concerns of the city's management of Ontario Works overp payments prior for the auditor general releasing his findings um to council and staff. Uh on the May 28th ECS meeting, it was stated that outstanding overp payments were largely historic and dated back to the 1980s and 90s when this portfolio was managed by the former region of Hamilton Wentworth. However, records obtained through that I've obtained through Freedom of Information through the ministry tell a very different story. According to the city's own um according to the ministry records, the outstanding Ontario works overp payments balances in January of 20 on January 2021 it was 39 39.91 million. On December 2025, which I've already presented previously, it was 56.9 million. And in four months from December 2025 to of April of this year of April of 2026, it increased to 58.4 million. That represents over 11 over 11-year period. Overpayments have increased $26.5 million in this city. And just in four months under this council's awareness of the overpayment issue, it increased approximately 1.5 million. And um on the slide it says 1.4. So I um that's a typo, so I apologize. City Hall continues to increase accounts receivables and liabilities without any real actions and collections. So this given this information that this new information I received through FOI it clearly shows that that this is not a systemic historic issue relating to this portfolio when it was managed on the region the former region of Hamilton went and it wasn't from decades ago the balance continues to grow year after year month after month and in four months it increased 1.5 million and this council continues to fail its mandate under the municipal act to to staff accountable to manage this portfolio. My question is simple. Why has there been no efficient collection efforts? Why are staff not being transparent to the public? I've made several attempts to reach out to staff to provide this information since May 28, but near neither than staff or the city manager's office have acknowledged my emails or met with me. Why have overpayments increased 1.5 million to 58.4 million as of April 2026? As a council, I want to remind you it's your fiduciary responsibility under the municipal act to provide oversight and guidance to staff on their legislative mandates to collect. Staff have presented that as of November 2024, newly terminated cases of Ontario Works overpayments have been transferred to the province. So if they have been transferred to the province to collections what including the using crown debt and recon taking it out of CRA wouldn't this be reflected in the numbers and we see these overpayments being down why are there still continued to have outstanding balances why are why is there no oversight these are questions that the audit will be answering and why has council when not received regular reports from staff on what is being done to collect the amount and return it to the provincial Treasury. Often this council advocates to the federal government and to the provincial government for money. However, how can the province fund money when there's outstanding collections that need to be returned to the provincial treasury? As this committee is responsible for financial accountability and oversight of the city, I'm asking the auditor general as part of the scope of the audit to look at this issue carefully and to review the city's overpayment recovery practices, internal controls, reporting processes, and if the if staff are actually um um referring newly inactive terminated cases after November 2024 to the province for collections. If they were, we would see this number coming down. But it increased 1.5 million in four months under this council's watch. As this audit will be completed shortly, and this council term will be ending, cancel failed its mandate to oversight to collect this money. What is being restored to trust to put these receivables back in the provincial treasury and restore trust and accountability back to city hall. I would like to thank the auditor general, deputy auditor general and the auditor's general team to taking the time and dedication to complete this very thorough audit and have been the only department in the city that has taken the feedback from the public seriously. Why haven't staff have um meet with me as of today? Let it's time to restore trust accountability for the taxpayers and for here at city hall as well as this next term of council. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Javis. I'm going to look around and see if we have any questions for you from members of the committee, and I don't see any. So, thank you again for your delegation. We appreciate you bringing this to us, and um we will no doubt see you soon. Okay, then I'm going to go to 6.2B, which is Michelle McDonald virtually. Michelle, if you could activate your camera and microphone, you'll have five minutes and uh at your leisure, please proceed. >> Good afternoon, chair and members of committee. I'd like to draw your attention to what I believe is a significant financial management issue facing the city of Hamilton. As of April 2026, Ontario Works alone has 58.3 million in outstanding overp payments. On top of that, as of December 2026, there is 68 million in outstanding provincial offenses fines waiting to be collected. Yeah, 68 million in outstanding provincial offenses act fines. We also know the city carries outstanding property tax balance, unpaid water bills, and parks and recreation fees. Although the full amounts have not been publicly presented here today, when we look at these figures together, a clear pattern emerges. Hamilton doesn't just have an Ontario Works issue. It has a broader collections issue. At a time when residents are facing increasing taxes and service pressures, the city should be doing everything possible to recover money that is already owed before asking taxpayers to contribute more. My question is simple. When will the city centralize collections into one department with clear accountability, consistent collection practices, and measurable performance targets. A coordinated collection strategy could improve recovery rates, reduce outstanding accounts receivables, strengthen financial stewardship, and demonstrate to taxpayers that the city is committed to managing public funds responsibly. Thank you, and I look forward to your responses. >> Thank you, Michelle. Appreciate you being here today. I'm looking around the chamber to see if there are any questions from members of the committee, and I do not see any. So, thank you again for being here and we will no doubt see you soon. Thank you. We are moving on now to 6.2C which is Rosemary, the small ownership landlords Ontario organization. Like to call upon Rose to activate your camera and microphone and when you're ready you'll have five minutes. Please proceed. Good morning, chair and members of the AFA committee. As the auditor general's office proceeds with the value for money audit, I want to bring forward a growing concern affecting housing providers and Ontario works recipients. The use of pay direct arrangements to support housing stability needs to be part of its scope to reduce fraud and waste and ensure that the shelter allowance is being used for shelter. In the Ontario Work Service report presented to ECS on May 28th, 26, the city identified that shelter allowances have remained unchanged since 2018, while average market rents in Hamilton have increased by approximately 39%. Nearly 90% of Ontario Works recipients rely on rental housing with 84% living in the private rental market and only 5% accessing subsidized housing. Despite the reliance on private rental housing, there are concerns from housing providers that the city is not fully utilizing available tools such as directive 3.7 pay direct arrangements to help prevent housing loss and keep residents housed. Through a freedom of information request, I found that in January 2024, Hamilton had approximately 12,000 Ontario Works cases with 937 cases receiving pay direct arrangements where benefits were paid directly to landlords. By January 2026, the case load increased to approximately 13,000 cases. Yet only 981 cases had pay direct arrangements, an increase of only 44 cases. Many of these arrangements appear to be directed toward third-party providers such as non-forprofit housing providers rather than private housing providers. This raises an important question. Is the city effectively using the pay direct directive as a homelessness prevention tool for the majority of recipients who are living in private rental housing? The committee should ask why directive 3.7 is not being more broadly utilized with private housing providers when the city's own data shows that, and I'd like to underline this, 84% of Ontario Works recipients are living in private rental housing. Rather than increasing costs associated with homelessness response and expanding emergency shelter capacity, the city should focus on prevention by maximizing existing tools that help residents maintain their housing by expanding pay arrangements 3.7. I keep receiving calls from landlords in Hamilton on OW issues with the latest uh one on Norwich Road. Hamilton residents experiencing housing instability cannot wait for the problem to be documented year after year. They need meaningful action, measurable outcomes and accountability. This committee should look into this now. And uh that's the end of my presentation. Thank you. >> Thank you, Rose. Appreciate you being here today. Looking around to see if there are any questions from committee members for you. Seeing councelor Moren Wilson up first, please. Uh thank you. Thank you for your delegation. I'm I'm sorry. I'm just seeking clarity. Uh your suggestion. Could you just clarify the issue? >> You're trying to raise in reference to the number of individuals who are housed in the private housing sector. I'm I'm just I'm not making the connection. Please and thank you. >> Okay. Sure. So what we have is a situation when um there are any rental aars a private landlord will try to contact the OW department and ask them to arrange pay to rent that is being blocked. It's not happening. Um the department may say that yes it is happening for some people but when you look at the numbers it's not happening. they're being um small landlords will often have the door shut on them and they'll say no, we don't do it or we have to do an investigation. So what I'm saying is that there's 84% of the private housing supplying residents who need housing and it's a much it's significant compared to the amount that uh the OW department at um uh the city of Hamilton. They will provide direct payment for people who come through your third party agencies. Would you like me to name the agencies? >> No. Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. That concludes the questions. I'm just going around to make sure that there are no further speakers. Rose, thank you for being here today. Appreciate it. And uh you're welcome to exit the WebEx and watch online if you'd like to continue to join us. Uh so that is the end of 6.2 delegations. I need a mover and seconder to receive the delegations. Looking to councelor Wang and Spataphora. Thank you. If I could have a show of hand vote. All in favor of receiving the delegation. That is unanimous. Thank you, colleagues. We're moving on to 6.3, which is delegations respecting the Elgen Transformer Fund Community uses. This is an item uh at 10.1 6.3A Margaret Bennett Beasley Neighborhood Association in person. Margaret, take your time. Come on down and we'll get you set up at the uh podium. And I'll just ask that our clerk staff can make sure that it's adjusted appropriately to the correct height for you. >> On the other side. There we go. >> And when you're ready, Margaret, you've got five minutes. Okay. >> Thank you. Good morning. My name is Margaret Bennett. I'm the vice president of the Beasley Neighborhood Association. I'm here today to support the Elgen transformer fund community uses grant uh grant no war two motion. In uh two 2016 Hydro1 determined that the aging Elgen transformer station which supplies power to downtown Hamilton required upgrading. At that time the community and the parent council raised concerns that the station's hazards sitting adjacent to Dr. Davy School in Beastley Park and the pro proposed relocation the station across the street that was then an empty block. Hydro1 instead opt to refurbish in place the leading uh refurbish it in place. the leading war II counselor Jason fire to pledge the 2018 in 2018 which was provided to the BNA in writing that roughly 100,000k in rental revenue from the station would go back to Beasley community and the Dr. Davyy school the following is a quote from Mr. Far's letter the community through assembly of residents and Dr. Dr. Davyy parents and teachers may decide on how to allocate the doctors as they see fit and in keeping with their pledge to fulfill community and school needs. I have a copy of that letter here just in case anyone would like to see it. Uh the community um the kids at Dr. Davy School and the Beasley neighborhood are currently underserved by the park and the school and deserve better infrastructure to live happy and active lives. Given that Hydro1 has paid the money to the city, it is very reasonable that the money should be held for the purpose of helping the Beasley kids. The BNA and the Dr. Davyy School Council has formed a subcommittee to decide how to spend these funds. This is a challenging process that requires the coordination of multiple stakeholders and community consultation. The BNA is dedicated to ensuring that the process is fair and good decision is made that the benefits the community as these funds were attended for. Bas Park is a special and distinctive space in our neighborhood. It should be a hub within the community for local families. Having these funds put into reserve has potential to make a big difference. It will allow stakeholders to make changes that focus on specific needs of the children's at Dr. Davyy and the Beasley community. >> Thank you, Margaret. I'm going to look around the room and see if we have any questions for you. And I don't see any. If you've got documents that you want to leave with clerks, we can have uh one of our legislative uh assistants collect those. >> I have the hydro1 letter that was dated July 21st, 2016. >> If you wish to leave that with clerks, then it could be uh duly distributed. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for being here. Up next, 6.3B. Anya Leato, come on down. on you. And if need be, that uh pedestal can be adjusted. There's a little lever on your left hand side. Okay, if you're all good, you have five minutes at your leisure. Please begin. >> Thank you. Good morning. Uh my name is Ana Leato and I'm here to speak in support of the Elgen Transfer Fund Community uses. I am the school council chair at Dr. Davy Elementary School. Our school also includes the Beasley Community Center. 5 years ago, I started the school council after learning that Elgen transformer station project was nearing completion and Hydro1 community benefit funds were available. However, for those funds to be used, input from both the school council and the Beasley Neighborhood Association was required. At that time, the school council no longer existed. The parents who had helped establish the original agreement had moved on as their children graduated. I saw there was a need and so I stepped in to rebuild the school council and continue this work. Over the past four years, I have worked alongside a dedicated group of parent volunteers and the Beasley community who have donated their time to navigate the city's processes and engage our community in deciding how these funds should be used. I have also worked closely with the war 2 office over the last several years. This motion ensures that a decade of work can continue. This motion protects the funding already allocated to our community as we move into the next stage of the process following the city's report. Given the current condition of the playground at Beasley Park, many children rely on the school grounds as their primary place to play. Investing these funds in our community will have a meaningful and lasting impact on our children and families as they were intended to benefit. I ask that you support this motion so that the commitment made to the children of the busy neighborhood can be honored. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ana. I'm going to look around and see if there are any questions. Wonder if I could turn the chair over to Vice Chair Spataphora just very quickly. And I probably should have asked Margaret the same question. >> I will probably be able to answer. >> You'll probably be able to answer. I'm assuming as much um just in terms of the process. Uh so you you said that you've kind of reconstituted the um >> Dr. Davy School Council. >> Yes. >> And you're going through a process of envisioning what what comes next. I'm just curious as to where are you in that process? Have you started brainstorming? Have you started to get cost estimates? Uh what what level of uh granularity might you be able to provide in terms of your process so far? So we uh formed a subcommittee. We met about a few times. We submitted all of our ideas. So the HSA, the Wes, we have Wesley, the school council and the BNA that has, you know, those are our community stakeholders in the area. We've met, we put together what all our ideas were. We submitted them to W 2 who, you know, submitted it for the city to give back a report that basically itemized what each of those costs are. Uh, we got that report back in June. So, this motion is to basically ensure that those funds that we've been all working for do remain because there's going to be an election. That is kind of our goal, you know. But um so we we are in the process of trying to narrow it down now to what exactly this funds these funds could actually go for now that we have an idea. >> Okay. So some considerable work has been put into this. >> Clearly we have Yes. >> Thank you very much for your time Anya. I don't see any further questions. I'll take the chair back from the vice chair. >> Thank you. >> Uh you may be seated. Thank you. >> Okay. I need a mover and seconder to receive the delegations for this item. Seeing councelor Cretch, councelor Hang. Show of hands folks, all in favor and that carries. Thank you colleagues. We're moving on directly to 9.2. So if you flip through your agenda, this would be a motion with regards to the DC relief in simple terms. Councelor Alex Wilson, if you would introduce your motion, please. >> Thank you. So uh ultimately what this motion does is it directs staff to wave the development charges that are associated with the building permit on this site. Uh the development charges were acred based on their various you know whether it was a wastewater etc. And so finance staff suggested the appropriate accounts to fund from um and that's what you find in the B the funding sources. I think at a high level why is this coming forward and just um for me I think the key reason here um as someone especially who's talked a lot about development charges in this committee specifically um I'm looking at this through a lens of partnership uh we are using cityland working with a nonprofit partner to achieve a goal that we said was worth subsidizing when we determined a nominal lease we made some of these decisions about a partnership approach earlier in the process um and asking for a quart million dollars as part of the development charge piece um I think is just a lesson for me that that would have been an better conversation even though the numbers wouldn't have been specific to have in principle at the lease stage so everyone was on the same page and maybe there's a different partnership where we want to make a different a different decision in the future with city land and nonprofit partner but for this partnership I think we made it very clear that this was going to be a nominal lease and that we were trying to offer in kind support to get this project off the ground including the finding of land and leasing of city land. So from my perspective, this is continuing on with a commitment that we had made at the beginning of this term. And my seconder, my apologies, thank you, clerk, uh, is councelor Spataphora. >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh, councelor Alex Wilson. Up next on the speakers list, councelor Tammy Wang, please. >> Thank you. Highly supportive of this, uh, motion moving forward. Just a question is, uh, they're a nonprofit. They're healthcare adjacent. Why do they have to pay DC's? Okay, we're going to go up to the bench. If you'd introduce yourself, general manager >> through the chair, Mike Zakar, general manager of finance corporate services. uh the a development of this nature is not exempt statutoily uh exempt under the municipal act and as uh councelor Alex Wilson identified uh notwithstanding the nominal lease that the city entered into with the network the network did bear responsibility of development charges under the lease and uh for those two reasons the issue is before committee uh today councelor So, um I'm just I asked Lindsay Gillies because I wanted to know exactly why. So, Lindsay was really good to um explain that um the criteria for exemptions on nonprofit housing and nonprofit retirement homes are set out in the act, but a hospice does not meet those act definitions um for nonprofit housing or nonprofit retirement homes. So, I just wanted to get that on public record as to why that's that's there. Thank you very much. Thank you, Jam Garrick, for your answer. >> Okay, going on next to Councelor Brad Clark, please. >> Thank you, Chair. I fully support this. Hospicees on Ontario have this unique situation with the government. If you have a hospice in a hospital like St. Peter's Hospital, they have a palative care program right inside the hospital. They don't pay taxes. they don't pay development charges. But if it is a notfor-profit who sets up a pallet of care program, whether children or or adults in a private building outside of a hospital, all of a sudden they're not a part of the health care system. It's wrong. It doesn't make sense. They should be getting similar funding that you would get within a hospital but in private care from the Ministry of Health and they should be treated more like a hospital because that's exactly what they're doing. They're providing pallet of care. There's no emergency department but they're like mini hospitals helping people die with dignity, respect, and with their family and with love. There can't be anything more heartwarming and important to someone who's at the end of life than that type of treatment. So, I understand the disconnect. I get that. I am a little bit frustrated that a lease agreement was signed and created by staff a knowing that the council had made the decision for a nominal lease. Um I would have thought that there would have been a trigger at the very least to say, "Oh, council, what about developing charges?" because putting the development charges in the lease as an obligation for this organization is inconsistent with the original intention of the motion. So, I support it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Clark. I'm looking around the room to see if there are any further questions. And seeing none, this has been duly moved and seconded. It will require an electronic vote. We'll see if the robots are fired up this morning. At the appropriate time, please indicate your vote electronically. I hope the next guy's faster. Cell. Oh my goodness. >> Success. >> Please indicate your vote now. And that carries by a uh unanimous count 80. Thank you. Congratulations. Um, now I do need a mover and seconder to receive the correspondence. That's 9.2A. Seeing councelor Alex Wilson, Councelor Mike Spataphora, any discussion on the correspondence? Seeing none, please indicate your vote by a show of hands. That is unanimous. Thank you folks. And this will be ratified, no doubt, at the council meeting next Wednesday. Okay, we're moving now back to item seven. This is items for information starting with 7.1 FCS26053 and this is the master trust pension investment performance report as of December 31st, 2025. Looking to see if we have any questions for staff on this report and I believe that we will receive all of these items together upon the conclusion of the items for information. So once again, looking to see if there are any questions of staff. And seeing none, we're going to move next to item 7.2, which is PW26029, management response to report. Whoops. No, one moment. We've got the wrong one. One moment. Okay, in error we are still at 7.2, but it is actually CM26010 which is the Burton Tiffany shelters audit response update. Looking for any questions from members of committee on this item. Seeing first councelor Brad Clark, please. So I'm not sure how to exactly ask this this question. Um, we got into a situation, the city got into a situation with the proponents, the people who were going to provide the materials. They were a brand new company. They had not registered, not done anything before. And we basically agreed we wouldn't go there again. And yet, it would appear that we're going there again on a property in downtown Stony Creek with a company that's brand new. and it has no history. So, can someone on staff indicate what's the difference between the two? >> Looking to the bench for a response >> uh through the chair, uh Grace Mater, general manager, healthy and safe communities. Um councelor, I'd have to do some follow-up work on that and I can um circle back with you on that as with some confirmation. I would very much appreciate that. Thank you. I just in my mind it's important that we learn from mistakes in the past and not repeat them. Thank you. Okay. I'm looking around to see if there are any further speakers to item CM260107.2 which is the Barton Tiffany temporary shelters audit response update. And I see no further speakers. So I need a mover and secondary please to receive the items from information that the 7.1 and 7.2 seeing councelor Tammy Hang councelor Mike Spataphora. If there are no further questions or conversation I just need a hand vote to indicate your support. All in favor seeing that that is unanimous. Thank you colleagues. We're moving on now to item eight which is items for consideration beginning with 8.1 FCS26052. This is the master trust pension statement of investment policies and procedures. There is an overview coming from director Brian McMullen. I'll turn it over to Director McMullen. Uh thank you through the chair. Um yeah, so this um is a our as you read out the master trust pension um statement of investment policies and procedures. It's it's a required annual review that we have to have to provide. We typically go with this report to the um the Hamilton Municipal Retirement Fund and Hamilton Wentworth Retirement Fund Pension Advisory Committee. Uh there hasn't been a meeting scheduled uh for some time. So we um needed to bring it forward to auto finance and committee directly. Um what we've done in this particular report part of the update with our consultant is um we we've added some additional wording around what types of investments we might be able to pursue. Um and in particular it's annuities. uh they were permitted investment but it wasn't specifically in our past um SIP our statement of investment policies and procedures. So that's the main change that we did regarding that. The the reason for that was related to um some surpluses that we have in the in the three legacy pension plans. Um and it provides us some options going forward on with the types of assets that we invest in and um and some advice that we've received from our um from our investment consultants and our actuaries about purchasing. you know, we're looking forward to purchasing annuities. So, we're going down that path, having that discussion um and determining what that process might look like. So, that's the main change in this um um SIP. >> Okay. Thank you, Director McMullen. We're going now to any questions from members of committee, beginning with Councelor Brad Clark, please. >> Thank you, Chair. Can I ask Director McMullen to explain a little bit further exactly what the change is? It sounded like we are now looking to invest in something that we have not invested in the past. And I still remember not fondly the assetbacked paper debacle that occurred in the province of Ontario and many municipalities got burned. um we were fortunate enough to resolve it at litigation but I worry about what we are now doing without having more information as to what you are doing director. >> Yeah. So yeah so through the chair um our our investment advisors and our actuaries have obviously have like not not obviously sorry um have some experience in in annuity purchases in the process to purchase an annuity. Um and essentially there are two types of an annuities that we can purchase related to these um in this case the pension investments. Um there's one type of annuity that we can purchase and um the city would still have responsibility to pay the pensioners. We have about a thousand uh pensioners beneficiaries um on these three legacy pension plans. So part of the part one one way would we would um transfer make so in the case of Hamilton Municipal Retirement Fund there's about $60 million in assets. So we would go out to market um and meet with the look at the insurers and see whether what that would look like if we provided them with a $60 million and then they would they would manage the fund um and it would set the the um reduce the risk um for the investments in in equities and bonds which is our current investment strategy. So that's the one the one option. Um >> okay and we've got a little more information coming from general managers as Gary please. >> Yeah through the chair I appreciate the question. Um how uh staff are approaching this is uh as per the report you'll note that this fund is actually in the surplus position. It's 113% funded and it is weighted 50% in fixed income and 50% in equity. We need to derisk this fund. The fact that we're in a surplus position, we shouldn't be pursuing growth income investments. We need to derisk and ensure a stable and consistent uh funding stream uh that will uh benefit retirees and meet our obligation. That uh to councelor Clark's question, that is the objective is to reduce the risk that the city is currently uh exposed to with our current investment strategy. >> Okay. Councelor Clark. >> So if I could say what I think I heard chair is that the city of Hamilton is going to continue to invest in bonds and withdraw from equity investments on the trust pension trust. Is that correct through the chair? Uh generally that's correct. Fixed income. So we want low risk fixed income and changing the the waiting but with respect to annuities as well it uh ensures that we meet our future obligations with less risk and a more consistent uh funding stream not more consistent apologize uh a a better understood funding stream uh because again more weight on fixed income >> counselor >> so the type of annuity I'm familiar with annuities that the insurance companies sell to people um where they take uh a pile of equity and then create a payback program where over a period of time that money will be paid back and they earn um investment income usually high interest earnings on that annuity. Is that going to be the same thing here? general manager >> through the chair I think we want to investigate what our options are with respect to annuities we haven't predetermined uh the form of annuity um but recognizing um there's there's risk in the current profile and we want to proceed with a lower risk strategy >> and so will the team be coming back to this council with the results of their investigation into options for investments in annuities through the chair. Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Clark. I'm looking around to see if there are any further questions and I don't see any. So, I need a mover in a second or to approve the recommendations contained within this report. Seeing councelor Crutch, councelor spata. And uh please indicate your electronic vote now. And that passes unanimously. 800. Thank you, colleagues. We're now moving on to item 8.2, which is amendments to the OBL, the outstanding business list. If I could have a mover and seconder to approve the amendments within the OBL. Seeing councelor Spataphora and councelor Hang. Thank you. Any questions about the OBL update and seeing none, this will require an electronic vote. Please indicate your vote now. And that carries unanimously. 8 Z. Thank you, colleagues. Moving on now to motions beginning with 9.1. This is support for the Ottawa Street Business Economic Improvement Area, the annual sidewalk sale event to offset the economic impacts of the closure of the Main Street East and Ottawa Street intersection. Councelor Hang, if you could please introduce your motion and your seconder. >> Thank you. moved by myself and seconded by my colleague on BIA subcommittee, councelor Moren Wilson. This is a motion asking for committee's help on um supporting the Ottawa Street BIA. The BIA will be suffering a significant um disruption to their business because of the main and Ottawa street closure. This is uh for LRT enablement. uh construction has already started but they will have experience a full closure of that intersection August 17th and it will go for approximately four months and if we think about the timing wise from August they're almost into December so uh this this is where they still want to continue with some of their work specifically this is for their annual sidewalk sale that happens sometime in September and uh there is significant cost in closing down the street but the street's already kind of closed closed. And then so there's a lot happening here. So this is asking committee um that a grant to the Ottawa Street BIA support the delivery of the Ottawa Street annual um sidewalk sale be funded from the W4 capital discretionary account 3302309400 to an upset limit including contingency not to exceed $9,400. Subject have the funding be used for eligible event related expenses including but not limited to road closure costs, event programming, logistics, and other expenses that directly support the delivery of the annual Ottawa Street BIA sidewalk sale. that the remaining eligible event costs of the Ottawa Street uh annual sidewalk sale be funded from the economic development's one-time funding request stream account 5594882023206 to an upset limit including contingencies not to exceed 99 9,400 and that the mayor and city clerk be authorized to execute any required agreements and ancillary documents with such terms and conditions in a form satisfactory to the city solicitor. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor Hang. Looking to see if there's any questions from committee members about this motion and I do not see any which means it has been duly moved and seconded. Please indicate your vote now. And that carries unanimously. Congratulations councelor Hang. Thank you colleagues. We're moving on now to item 9.3, Roots Youth Center one-time emergency funding. Councelor Alex Wilson, if you would please introduce your motion and your seconder. >> Thank you. Through you, chair. Uh, of the next kind of following motions, if you'll allow me, we did our intake for our community grants process. Um, and then two requests came in outside of our traditional requests. This is one of those two requests. Um, I'll admit that this is a bit non-traditional. Sorry, I'll say that councelor Spataphor agreed to second this one. In terms of the grants process, the roots youth center uh offers drop-in programming for youth in the Dundas area. Um, predominantly food security programming has been in growing area of demand. At the same time, as I think many folks who um have nonprofits in their uh wards and communities will know that these past couple years not only have met surging demand on frontline service, um same that all food banks are experiencing across our city, it's also been met with a decline in fundraising dollars, um volunteers showing up and some of those things. At the same time, uh this organization has gone through a huge transition. and is trying to keep its doors open. While it applies for grants, while it works without having some of the staff supports it had to kind of pair down, it's it's going through a dramatic transition. It's provided 50 years of support um in the Dundes community. Uh and this funding ensures that uh until the winter season and they can have a chance to kind of again six more months of fundraising, a new operational plan and a new organizational structure continue to proide the food security programming that they do provide for students in the Dundas area. That includes being able to drop in before school, ensure there's breakfast, being able to drop in after school, get a snack, and being able to take brown bags to school, uh, sometimes for lunch as well. So, those are the the types of programs that aren't part of their traditional service that they started implementing and created a huge funding pressure, but also were met with such a surge in demand that they couldn't stop as an organization. Um, kind of the perfect storm. this funding is meant to give them a bit of a a bit of a bridge to see what the committed volunteers and the folks who are trying to get that organization on a path can do um with that time and ensure that there's not a disruption um for the families and current you know families and youth currently relying on that service and counting on those breakfast programs and lunch programs come the September season. >> Okay, thank you. And I believe you said your secondary was councelor Mike Spatapora. >> Yes, I did. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh I don't see any questions about this item. So, we'll move directly to the electronic vote. Please indicate your vote now. And that carries unanimously. Congratulations, councelor. Thank you, colleagues. We're moving on now to item 9.4, which is the word 13, community grants. Councelor Alex Wilson, if you would introduce your motion and your seconder, please. >> Thank you. This one is our standard grants. These are the ones that kind of fit within our $5,000 max, seconded by councelor Cretch. The um 10 applications are below. Uh you can see uh that not all applicants um received the max. There was some evaluation. Happy to answer questions. These are all community associations. Most of the dollars go directly towards a programming or outcome specific into the ward. Um I think one of the ones for example in the past that is coming back again uh is they did a youth theater camp uh previously the Dundas little theater uh reflecting on that uh what they were able to do at a kind of a teenage level uh they've asked to for funding to do something actually with younger audiences um they're able to continue kind of the programming they had launched previously now excited to look at um continuing this forward thank you >> okay and I don't see any questions from committee so therefore we will move direct directly to an electronic vote. Please indicate your vote now. And that carries unanimously. Congratulations, Councelor Alex Wilson. We're moving on now to item 10.1. And this is a notice of motion, but I understand that councelor Crutch, you have a notice to wave the rules to introduce this. So, we'll begin by that motion to suspend the rules if you'd like to speak to it. >> Second by councelor Wilson. Want to speak? Yeah. Okay. Moved by myself, seconded by councelor Morin Wilson. Do we have the rules? >> Okay. And normally we just get a reasoning as to the >> Yeah, it's because there's no legislative time left in this term of council and this is timesensitive for that reason. and I'll explain why when we get to it. >> Okay. So, we'll begin colleagues with a motion to suspend the rules. And I see is there a question? No. No questions. Okay. We have it moved and seconded. So, we're going to begin with the electronic vote to suspend the rules. Please indicate your vote now. and that carries. 8 Z. Okay, we're going to proceed with the introduction of the motion. Councelor Crutch, if you would indicate the motion and your seconder. >> Yeah, it's moved by councelor Morin Wilson. And this is a bit of a strange motion. And I recognize that upfront and I'm going to suggest a change to the wording to address one issue that I think is probably missing from the motion upon further reading it again for the probably 10th time. I've read it and missed it the first nine times and that's on me. But the issue here is pretty straightforward. When this parking lot was taken over to build the Elgen Elgen transformer, it had a pretty negative impact on everybody in the community. Uh the park residents, neighbors, students, and there was a discussion at that time with former ward counselor, well, what what are you going to do here to ensure that there's some benefit given back to the students for the many years that all these areas were closed down and we couldn't use them because the transformer was being built. And what councelor Far told people at that time was, well, we're going to get the Elgen transformer folks to pay rent to a fund. That rent for closing all that space down basically because they were they were taking over that space to do the building. The rent for all that space will put in an account. And then what will happen is it'll be put back into the community. And at that time, he signed a letter, which he had no authority to do for the record. He signed a a letter saying that the BNA, the visa labor association, and the parent council at the school would be the ones who' come up with the projects to be decided upon to be spent that money to be spent on. So that's what he did at that time. He penned the letter and this was all this was all done. Now the way it's set up currently in the reserve account is exactly like discretionary funding. There is nothing stopping me from bringing a motion tomorrow during this room of council to say this is how I think we should use this and then council can approve that motion. It's specifically that's the kind of situation it's it's currently in a discretionary reserve. So one of the problems though is that the bees and neighbor association is trying to figure out what projects they want to do and they haven't come to a decision yet about about that with the parent council about what exactly the projects are going to be and it's taken a long time to cost some of these projects as you can imagine. Some of them are complicated. They're about improvements to the skate park. Uh some of them improvements to the park itself. Some of them are improvements to Simone Hall, which is a little community center there. Some are about the Beastley Community Center. All the little projects, capital projects I should add, are all kind of complicated. So, we don't want to run out of time and have no motion formally about this ever. So, that's why it's here. And it's not in here, but I'm happy to add some language that says that the actually has to come back to council for approval at the end. That's always been the intention. But the goal of cottifying this here is to ensure that those those parties know that this money is going to be used for that purpose as they were promised to have been used in the first place. At that time, a motion should have just come forward in 2018 when that occurred. It just didn't came forward. And so that letter has been circulated to clerks. You can see it if you want with the former counselor signature on it. There's a letter from Hydro1 detailing that this is the reason why they have the account and they've agreed that this is where the money is going to be spent. Like all this is in other letters and places. it's just not here. So, the whole purpose of doing this is to make sure that it's here, that we understand what's happening here. We're codifying this so that there's no risk that somehow uh anyone in the future would come along and just say, "Well, I'm going to just move that over here." Cuz technically, I'm going to say it again, I could do that without a motion. I could ask that that money be moved somewhere else because there's nothing holding it to this specific use in the city's records. So right now it just sits as a line item in the discretionary reserve and it's se kept separately and that's only because I've been making sure it's been kept separately but at any time I could have just said well throw it in the other the big reserve you know and leave it in there and then there would be no ear marking for this use. So I hope that provides a bit of a history. You heard from delegates today many have been participating in this organization for a long time and they're just nervous that nothing's ever been codified about this. So what are we going to do? I think the change I want to make is just to ensure that somewhere in this language and I'll leave clerks to add it in the appropriate manner that once the list of projects has actually been decided on right that that actually has to come back here. That's what we with everything small grants uh that have to go through that process that was implied but not written so that once we actually get the costing for everything it comes back here we give it a final step of approval so everyone can see what it's going to be spent on in case there's any objections to the actual items themselves. I hope that explains the situation. Again, I realize it's a little bit awkward, but I think it's the right thing to do to bring this forward and make sure it's codified, so staff aren't wondering what to do with this. Uh, the community is not left shrugging their shoulders and we can finally keep good on the promise that was made. >> Okay. So, just on that, I think you've suggested something of a housekeeping item. Uh, an addition of uh a new B, moving B to C, maybe the addition of a number B uh that would see this return back to this body for final approval. on on all expenditures. Um I'm looking to LC Salomon if we can come up with some wording while we entertain some questions. Would that be appropriate >> through the chair? Yes, you can come up with some wording and send it and we can make the amendment. You can also do this at council. It is up to committee. >> Yeah, I think the wording is pretty straightforward. I'm just going to say it out loud and then that that the final list of expenditures come back through this committee just like the grants process, right? For council ratification, just like every other thing. I don't think I need to make a special sentence for that. Yeah. >> But that's it. Um that comes back here for council ratification. >> So then we will see the addition of a a new section B with that wording. We'll finalize that. We can throw it up on the screen so that we know what we're talking about so that it is crystal clear before it moves to council next week. And uh in the meantime I will turn to councelor Brad Clark please. So questions to staff. Was this fund was there ever a policy applied to this fund notwithstanding a letter that was signed by councelor far which made a promise and um I don't think counselors can bind city councils to anything including mayor Eisenberger who made a promise to the Ukrainian community about a flag that would fly until the end of the war and he doesn't have the authority to do that either. I'm worried about this. I appreciate the counselor's attempt to codify it. I'd like to understand what language is going to be there for the councils that will be here many years from now. There should be a policy, a document, something showing what's going on here. >> Okay. I'm looking to the bench to see who's going to take that. I believe it's general manager Zagger >> through the chair. Um this revenue stream is realized through a lease agreement. In 2016, council approved that any revenues uh relating to re lease agreements, easements, rightaways, signages within specific wards that those revenues uh be directed to a ward specific capital project to be used for initiatives within the ward. So that was approved in 2016 and it's within that framework that uh these uh license uh proceeds would fall under >> councelor >> I heard you say capital is it restricted to capital or social services as well >> through the chair projects uh sorry uh through the chair 2016 uh it identified projects uh operating costs are exclusive. >> So operating costs are not permitted through the chair. That's correct. >> Okay. Um I'd like to hear the added language and then I'll make the decision. I think the council is doing the right thing by trying to codify it. It's I use the example of the landfill royalties in Upper Stony Creek. The codification of that was through the environmental compliance agreement. So it's very clear what we can and cannot do with that money. Um and we need to do the same thing here. Notwithstanding any written promise, we go by policy and bylaws. We have to maintain that. So I appreciate councelor Cretch trying to correct this situation. Thank you. >> Okay. Um going back to uh councelor Crretch for a second time please. >> Yes. As you heard from general manager Zaric there's already some codification in our city's policies with respect to making sure this is spent on capital costs nonoperational costs and that's the overg guiding policy here as well as lease agreement from 2016 from elector I believe it was at the time and so that's there already. What I'm doing, and Sal can read it out, is just adding one more piece of language to make sure that those final list of projects comes back to council for codification. That way, everybody can see them. That was always implied, by the way, but I realized it wasn't written out. So, now it's going to be there. And S, if you wouldn't mind sharing that when you're ready, too. >> Yeah, we're going to get that up on the big screen in just a moment so that we're all looking at the same item. Okay. Thank you for making it really small. So, >> okay. So, this is going to change the resolution that is before us in the following manner. A stays the same. There is the addition of a new B and if it stops moving on the screen for a second. B that before funds can be dispersed a list of final projects to be funded be approved by council. And I see nods that the intent is captured. I have uh the general manager with a comment or question through the chair. Maybe I'll just ask um the mover, councelor crutch, whether C is still relevant at this time or may may create ambiguity and confusion around authority and whether that should come back through the >> Yeah, you could take C away now. That makes sense. I see your point. >> Yep. Thank you. >> So C is no longer required. >> That will be strucken out. So we now have a new B that has been uh thoroughly discussed and I see some satisfaction staff understand the intent I believe from the bench. So we will now move to any further questions and I don't see any. Councelor Crretch, are you >> I just want to make sure I read this really quickly. One thing sorry just want to make sure I made a mistake. >> Nope. I just wanted to make sure that the both of the parties were named the bees and neighborhood association and the parent council at Dr. J DV school were named in that therefore because that's ultimately what I want to codified to make sure that we understand that they're the folks who are going to be bringing this list of projects forward and they're the ones that are going to be in council approver for the projects. I think that was always the worry was that without that in writing that piece in writing that somehow it would just be it might something might happen to it um because anybody here can bring a motion but any any reserve any counselor has right so I'm this is protecting that from happening in the future. Thank you. >> Okay. So we have thoroughly discussed this and the intent of course being that before city funds are spent this would return before this body for final approval and it's more of a consultative piece on the projects at hand with the Beasley Neighborhood Association and Dr. Davy parent council. Okay. So uh with that in mind I'd look for an electronic vote now. Please indicate your vote. And that carries 80. Congratulations, councelor Cretch. We're now moving on to 10.1A, which is correspondence from Viv Saunders. Respecting Elegant Transformer Fund Community uses. I have a mover in councelor Clark, a seconder in councelor Hang. Please indicate your vote by a show of hands. All in favor and that carries. Thank you colleagues. We are now moving on to 10.2 Dundas. It's the Dundas show today. Councelor Alex Wilson, please introduce your motion. I understand that we're starting with a movement for the suspension of the rules. if you would indicate your mover and seconder. >> So for >> for both the motion and the motion to wave the rules, we have councelor Wang this time and on the timing piece, uh this is our deadline to use these types of funds uh get approval. I mean I could bring it to council without notice, but I figured this is more notice than that. Um and it's just the reason this one's without notice, the other ones aren't is just administrative things. As you can tell, we are maybe making it close to that noonish deadline. Thank you, S. Uh this one came in on the other side of that and that's why we're asking to wave the notice. Okay. and your second is to councelor Tammy Hang. Any questions about the suspension of the rules? Seeing none, please indicate your vote now. And that carries 8 Z. We're moving now to the introduction of the motion. Councelor Alex Wilson, if you'd introduce your motion and your second, please. >> Thank you. Uh again, it's councelor Wang. Just a bit of backstory um on this one. Dundas Community Services is a local community service provider in the Dundes area. You've heard me talk about them a lot before. The W 13 counselor um is also a member of the board uh is an interesting I think arrangement. So they're kind of this one of those arms lengthish agencies. They receive funding from the CF and as a result of the historic kind of strong partnership between the organization and the former town of Dundas and now the city of Hamilton. Um, prior to the cyber security incident, they were on our system um, through the Hamilton Library. Uh, they were receiving as one of very few social service agencies across the city, but they were kind of they had their own little door and they got their IT support through Hamilton Library. Um, as a result of some of the changes we've made after cyber security and a lot of our build back better, uh, we're not continuing those types of arrangements with uh, small partners. Um and so that has effectively from their like from their perspective they were getting a service provided by the city that is now no longer being provided uh in an in-ear cost. That's a download. Um so when you think about that's getting a contract that's making sure that they have database that's you know from their cloud building their own cloud system as opposed to using something kind of built within the broader city system. Um and so there are some costs both in software um as well as onetime navigation. Um and frankly this is a operating cost we all pay internet monthly at our homes um that just was not part of their annual budget. So giving them a chance to regularize this um as a cost that they're going to be doing from donations or grants that they receive but as part of their ongoing business. And this is just a onetime regularization support as well as some initial capital. >> Okay. Thank you for that. I'm looking to see if there's any questions. And seeing none, we will move directly. Oh my apologies. Councelor Brad Clark, please. >> Thank you, Chair. I'm a little bit confused. Can I ask for clarification? Did this program, Dundas Community Services receive the IT support from the city of Hamilton before the cyber attack and then the city of Hamilton decided, yeah, we're not doing that anymore. Um I would invite corporate services to maybe add more detail but what I can offer is through the Hamilton library um specifically which is part of the broader service that was the partner so it wasn't done it wasn't done through kind of Hamilton IT but it was done through the library's IT and as a result of that so maybe there could be a better answer but yes to the end is we are no no longer offering those arrangement is the is the outcome and so they're now trying to normalize and regularize that but I I would welcome any better at the end. >> So, who can answer my question? >> So, I'm going to look to the bench to see who is best positioned to offer an answer to your question. Councelor Clerk, I think uh general manager Zagger will take a stab at it. >> To the chair, um I would suggest we could take this away, this question away before council. I apologize. I'm not familiar with any previous uh relationship this community group had either with the city or with Hampton Public Library. >> Okay, Councelor Clark. So to clarify just so that I can get answers to this, what I hear from the ward counselor and he does his homework is that the library provided the IT service to this community group and the city after the cyber attack is no longer providing that IT service to the Hamilton Public Library and I don't recall that ever coming here for a decision of council to shut the door on services that we were providing to the library. So, can I hear back from GM Ziggger on that matter specifically? >> Okay, we'll see if there's any further clarification >> through the chair. Again, uh I don't have any specifics or understanding of the previous relationship and uh how or if the cyber incident affected that relationship. happy to take that away and gather that information before council. >> So, notwithstanding that, I support councelor Alex Wilson's motion, but what he said in his preamble kind of put a a red flag up and so I'd like to understand that better, but thank you, councelor. >> Okay, I have councelor Cameron Crretch up next, please. As a member of the Hamilton public library board, I can give you a brief answer and maybe that'll help you and if not you can reach out to the CEO Paul Tackle who can answer the question. But when the cyber security incident occurred, the library was probably one of the most disproportionately impacted organizations in the city. And the reason for that is because the kinds of services that the library provides to its patrons, especially those public-f facing services, are not provided by other organizations. So people rely heavily on computer access. They rely heavily on the ability to be able to use systems to check out books, these kinds of things. Now, luckily, a lot of the systems that were used to check out books weren't impacted in the same manner. But basically, it shut down public access to computers for everybody in the city for a very long time because when that happened, the library didn't have any way of restarting that system and getting it back out there to go through the verification processes and and the way it was set up. We lost a lot of things. So, long story short, library can't be in that position ever again. So the library has to have an independent system for it to be able to be offer those services to the public. That's the brief answer. So it can't be as entwined with the city's IT infrastructure as it used to be. But you could ask the CEO for more details than that. >> If I am understanding your response, councelor Crutch, the uh library has made a decision in the reconstruction of their system to no longer support any of the smaller um organizations that they may have in the past. So, it's more about the library changing their direction than it is about the city. Councelor Clark, did you have a second time question? Please proceed. >> So, trying to clarify then the changes that the library board made in response to what happened at the city. Are we getting is the Hamilton Public Library Board being fully funded for those services from the city or did you have to pick up some of those things on your own as a Hamilton Public Library? >> Okay, councelor Crunch. >> I would say it's a bit of a circular problem because in 100% of the funding for the Hamilton Public Library comes from the city. So that's one of the thing issues that I think we're faced with when it comes to things like the police board, the public library, other kinds of places. really ultimately we're paying for all those kinds of things. It has been a change in how we look at it from our budget perspective. So when you look at the library's budget, it looks different and I believe two budget cycles ago when the CEO was here, he spoke to a need to increase rather dramatically one of the line items and it was specifically because of that. Now all that meant really was that the funds that were being used by the city to pay for those services now became more visible in the library's budget, but it's six of one half dozen of another. Yeah, I'm aware that the city pays substantially the bill for the Hamilton Public Library, but I'm also aware that the Hamilton Public Library accepts donations to support Hamilton Public Library. So, I wanted to clarify that the onus was not being put on the library and they had to pick up additional costs because of something that the city had done. >> No, that's not the case. more about the IT infrastructure and making sure that they could operate independently so that they can continue to provide those services no matter what. And part of as I'm sure we all know now part of that is limiting risks from outside uh organizations as part of it. I'll also say that most bequests and donations to the library are in the form of bequests. A lot of them are and they're earmarked for specific things and so we can't really be using them for uh things like this. Usually they're meant for things with respect to materials. >> Yeah. Thank you. That clarification helps me a great deal. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Wilson. >> Thank you all. This has been moved and seconded and is now before us for an electronic vote. And that carries unanimously 80. Congratulations, Councelor Alex Wilson. So we are at the end of our public portion of our agenda. We are now going to move into the private and confidential section. If I could have a mover and seconder to move into private and confidential. Seeing councelor Cooper and councelor Spataphora. Thank you. Pursuant to section 9.3 subsections B and F of the city's procedural bylaw 21-021 as amended section 2392 subsections B and F of the Ontario Municipal Act 2001 as amended as the subject matter pertains to personal matters about an identifiable individual including municipal or local board employees and the advice that is subject to solictor client privilege including communications necessary for that purpose. If I could have a show of hands to move into private session. Colleagues, please indicate your vote by a show of hands. That is unanimous. Thank you. We'll be moving into private session in a moment. Members of the public are reminded uh to come back and join us following the closed session portion of the meeting uh of the meeting when you'll see members of the committee rejoin the meeting. The committee will wait up to 5 minutes upon reconvening in open session before proceeding with the meeting to provide members of the public and the media the time to return. Before we move into close session, I would ask that all members of the public please exit council chambers and the WebEx meeting. Now, any staff that are not directly related to the in camera portion are asked to please exit the meeting as well. A reminder to all members of committee to please ensure that you are moving into the close session portion of escribe electronically. would also remind members of the committee that as per section 8.7 of the procedural bylaw, the use of personal electronic devices dur during the closed portion are strictly prohibited in the use of city electronic devices during closed meetings is limited to text communication only and not as a telephone recording device or camera. Staff from the office of the city clerk are exempted from subsection 8.7c when using electronic devices for recordkeeping purposes. We will see you in a few minutes. generations. Let me I'm going to try. Just waiting for the thumbs up that we're ready to continue. >> Well, good, LC Salomon. >> Okay, we're going to continue now. We're back in open session. We've waited a few minutes. Uh what I need now is a mover and seconder for the report that we received in private session to be received and remain confidential referring to AUD260007 the auditor general reporting of serious matter to council that is report 97509. I could have a mover in councelor Alex Wilson seconded by councelor Tammy Hang. Uh we need an indication of your support by a show of hand vote. All in favor and that is unanimous. Thank you colleagues. And being that there is no further business, we are going to adjourn this meeting at 11:39. Thank you folks.